Tim Ferriss

December 29, 2023

Matt Mullenweg — The Art of Crafting a Sabbatical, Tips for Defending Against Hackers, Leveraging Open Source, Thriving in an AI World, and Tips for Life’s Darkest Hours (#713)

“Companies don’t die from competition. They usually die from suicide.”
— Matt Mullenweg

Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) is co-founder of the open-source publishing platform WordPress, which now powers over 40 percent of all sites on the web. He is the founder and CEO of Automattic, the company behind WordPress.com, WooCommerce, Tumblr, WPVIP, Day One, Texts, and Pocket Casts. Additionally, Matt runs Audrey Capital, an investment and research company. He has been recognized for his leadership by Forbes, Bloomberg Businessweek, Inc., TechCrunch, Fortune, Fast Company, Wired, University Philosophical Society, and Vanity Fair.

Matt is originally from Houston, Texas, where he attended the High School for the Performing and Visual Arts and studied jazz saxophone. In his spare time, Matt is an avid photographer. He currently splits his time between Houston and San Francisco.

Please enjoy!

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. You can watch the interview on YouTube here.

Brought to you by Momentous high-quality supplements, Helix Sleep premium mattresses, and AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement.

The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

Listen onApple Podcasts

Listen onSpotify

Listen onOvercast

#713: Matt Mullenweg — The Art of Crafting a Sabbatical, Tips for Defending Against Hackers, Leveraging Open Source, Thriving in an AI World, and Tips for Life’s Darkest Hours

This episode is brought to you by AG1! I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. And right now, when you first subscribe to AG1, you’ll get an AG1 Welcome Kit, a bottle of Vitamin D3+K2, a Morning Person hat, AND you’ll get to try each new flavor of AG1 and their new sleep supplement, AGZ. That’s $126 in free gifts for new subscribers! Visit DrinkAG1.com/Tim to claim this special offer today

This episode is brought to you by Momentous high-quality creatine! I’ve long benefitted from creatine for athletic and gym performance, and now I’m increasing my daily intake to enjoy the cognitive benefits as well. A pilot study in Alzheimer’s patients demonstrated that supplementing can increase brain creatine levels in just 8 weeks, improving measures of memory, reasoning, and attention. And a double-blind, placebo-controlled study found that creatine can restore aspects of memory and attention within hours in adults who are sleep deprived. I use Momentous Creatine made with Creapure®, which is sourced from Germany and has the strictest lab standards to ensure it’s at least 99.9% pure. And try Momentous’s Creatine Chews—clean chewable tablets with 1 gram of Creapure® creatine per chew—and their whey protein isolate and magnesium threonate, all of which meet their same, exacting standards. Check out Momentous for yourself and get 35% off your first subscription order with code TIM at LiveMomentous.com/Tim.

This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep! Helix was selected as the best overall mattress of 2025 by Forbes and Wired magazines and best in category by Good Housekeeping, GQ, and many others. With Helix, there’s a specific mattress to meet each and every body’s unique comfort needs. Just take their quiz—only two minutes to complete—that matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you. They have a 10-year warranty, and you get to try it out for a hundred nights, risk-free. They’ll even pick it up from you if you don’t love it. And now, Helix is offering 20% off all mattress orders at HelixSleep.com/Tim.

Want to hear the episode Matt Mullenweg and I did from Antarctica? Listen to our conversation here, in which we discussed whisky, perpetual daylight, living with zero internet access, the “patient” landscape of Antarctica, witnessing a total solar eclipse, the grieving process, podcast tech specs, existential revelations, bucket list items, and much more.

#578: Tim Ferriss and Matt Mullenweg in Antarctica: Exploring Personal Fears, Bucket Lists, Facing Grief, Crafting Life Missions, and Tim’s Best Penguin Impressions

What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

Connect with Matt Mullenweg:

Twitter | Instagram | Blog | Facebook | Spotify

SHOW NOTES

[05:12] The Argentine Dr. Mullenweg.
[08:15] Open source.
[10:19] Secret hiring.
[12:59] Matt is always on tour.
[15:14] Texts.
[17:39] How Matt chooses his next project(s).
[21:51] Building a digital Berkshire Hathaway.
[29:01] Why Matt’s excited about messaging.
[32:03] How Matt discovers companies he buys.
[32:53] RIP, Charlie Munger.
[33:28] Worthy rereads.
[37:10] My reflections on blogging, writing, and podcasting.
[48:55] Tyler Cowen’s inimitable style.
[49:42] Matt’s high school economics competition.
[57:05] Cables.
[57:59] AI spellcasting and community.
[1:01:09] Developments that will amaze the future.
[1:04:51] AI-proofing jobs.
[1:07:23] Why Matt’s optimistic about future generations.
[1:12:17] Data Liberation Front.
[1:14:12] More open app stores.
[1:18:53] Invisible tools (and weapons) of competition.
[1:23:40] Online security advice for the layman.
[1:26:21] WordCamp Asia.
[1:32:12] Taking a sa-Matt-ical.
[1:45:25] Rethinking nuclear energy.
[1:47:20] Rethinking psychedelics risks.
[1:57:59] Rethinking breathwork.
[2:02:05] Coping with depression.
[2:15:16] Rethinking TikTok.
[2:16:40] Blogging: absurd and beautiful.
[2:18:40] Rethinking Vienna sausages.
[2:19:57] Pocket ranch.
[2:21:36] Answering ancient emails.
[2:22:45] The curse of the ultra-critical eye.
[2:25:51] Rethinking meditation.
[2:28:38] Bacterial dentistry.
[2:32:06] Pocket party.
[2:32:55] Parting thoughts.

MORE MATT MULLENWEG QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“Don’t build on proprietary platforms. They can pull the rug, and will pull the rug, at any point. In open source, one, the rug can’t be pulled. Two, typically, they’re ultra pluggable. You can really change every line of WordPress.”
— Matt Mullenweg

“How do we help bend the long arc towards more freedom, more liberty across the world? Technology does that better than, I think, any sort of diplomacy or anything else that I could work on.”
— Matt Mullenweg

“Companies don’t die from competition. They usually die from suicide.”
— Matt Mullenweg

“If you have the people on your side, I feel like that’s what truly matters in the long term.”
— Matt Mullenweg

PEOPLE MENTIONED

Comment Rules: Remember what Fonzie was like? Cool. That's how we're gonna be — cool. Critical is fine, but if you're rude, we'll delete your stuff. Please do not put your URL in the comment text and please use your PERSONAL name or initials and not your business name, as the latter comes off like spam. Have fun and thanks for adding to the conversation! (Thanks to Brian Oberkirch for the inspiration.)

9 Comments

Inline Feedbacks

View all comments

baa

1 year ago

Re-reading Siddhartha did not end well in my case. It was one of my favorite books too. But then I read it again and didn’t like it. And again to make sure. And again, for good measure and in English to see if the tone changes (it does). That quote is probably the only part that I still like.

Now I’m afraid to go back to other favorites.

TLK24

1 year ago

What a treat it was to have Kevin Rose on your Random Show, closing the year 2023, and Matt Mullenweg, a favorite guest, to listen to and watch on first date of this new year, 2024. I am truly appreciative of these most intriguing and great episodes and hope for more to come. Thank you,Tim, for producing and creating such fantastic shows. Happy New Year 🎊! 1.1.24

Md. Abdullah Al Ripon

1 year ago

hi. nice to read it

Erv L

1 year ago

Great to hear Tim and Matt will be in Taiwan in the spring! If either of you are up for a meet up, I’m happy to show you around the night markets or set up a group meal. Interested to hear how you think things have changed since your last visit.

Arianna

1 year ago

Is El Zonte the El Salvadorian town referred to at the end?

kiran

1 year ago

very helpful for me keep making such content

Gaurav

1 year ago

I have found The Work of Byron Katie life changing. Related but also useful, The Sedona Method.

For anyone curious to try it out, I made an AI that will step you through the exercise (requires chatgpt subscription to try).

https://chat.openai.com/g/g-Nth3MIqC5-letting-go

Vanessa Johnson

1 year ago

Absolutely, maintaining a cool and respectful demeanor is key to fostering a positive and constructive conversation. Critique is welcome as long as it’s delivered with courtesy and consideration for others. Rudeness has no place here, and any disrespectful comments will be promptly removed. Let’s keep the conversation engaging and enjoyable for everyone involved. Thanks for setting the tone, and here’s to a fun and insightful exchange!

Kalman Gacs

1 year ago

Long time Tim Ferris fan, first time caller. Give your friend Matt a call and see if it might make sense to stand down on the fight against WP Engine and half his community. Like so many others I invested in the WordPress community and I am grateful for the software but the current shenanigans is giving me doubts and confusion on if and how to invest further.

Your friend is losing this battle right now and he can still win the war. However you frame what that war is, he can still win it. He does need to give up this one battle.